Some critics contend that Golding's ending is, in slang terms, a cop-out. Do you agree or disagree? Why? Also, now that you've finished the book, briefly evaluate it.
I do believe Goldings ending was a copout. He didn't really answer all of the unanswered questions. Like if Jack intentionally tried to burn the whole island down in hopes of killing Ralph, why wasn't there a final showdown, and what happened to Samneric? But maybe that's what Golding wanted? I thought the book was fabulous! His version of a crumbling society was very unique and stood out to me. It's clever to make the story about innocent little boys turning into savages when deserted on an island. Also I wished it ended differently, like Jack and Ralph having one final battle between each other.
Personally, I thought the book had a really great ending. Some big-picture loose ends are tied up, but not necessarily small details. For example, the smoke that Ralph had been pushing for all along was what got them saved - but that wasn't the purpose the savages were using it for. Ralph finally lets out his emotions about the realizations he has made about life; he realizes the evil inside all humans. Ralph is recognized by the sailor as being the leader of the island as he should have been along, and Jack doesn't even challenge him. We know that the boys will get home safely.
It was a fantastic book in my opinion. It was like some movies are - way better the second time around. I'm like you and wanted to read it as a pure adventure novel, but it's a lot deeper than that. It shows how acting civilized is essential to us humans, and if we revert to the ways of humans thousands of years ago (savagery that is), everything goes down the drain and nobody benefits. Although some parts of this book were really dark, I though it was a great story as a whole. I also loved visualizing the setting described by the narrator. All in all, a very interesting and gripping read.
The ending was definitely a copout if you were reading the novel as pure adventure. I liked Ralph and was glad that he was saved, but in a way I wanted to see a big final showdown. Finishing with a fight would have made the ending more exciting and logical. The final pages just didn't quite do it for me. I would have liked to have known what happens with Samneric and what a final confrontation between Jack and Ralph would be like under adult supervision...If only Golding had written a few more pages about the interactions between them on the ship home.
I really enjoyed the book. Golding took a simple concept and made the meaning of it very complex. With everything in the stroy having symbolism, it kept you constantly thinking about what each aspect represents. For that reason, I never grew bored of the book. It was a good plot doubled with good meaning.
I'm glad you enjoyed it. As no part of the book takes place anywhere EXCEPT the island, having the last few pages take place elsewhere might feel awkward. Still, I know what you mean ...
I am stuck on a middle ground for what to call it. On one end, it was definitely a story book ending, a.k.a., cop-out. On the other end, what were the other options? Jack killing Ralph and continuing his violent game? The two of them talking it out and magically everything becomes fine? I think Golding's choice would have been the best ending. Compare it to civilization, it comes, it builds, then it gets destroyed. But no matter what, some society will always prevail and continue, even if that ending is a Deus Ex Machina among the probable answers.
All in all with criticism aside, i enjoyed the book. I believe that although the cliche "stuck on an island" concept was used, Golding played it out in a unique way. The whole symbolism based on how civilization can fail in big ways was definitely earned bonus points. This is a worthwhile read I would recommend for others and may find myself coming back to in later years.
I don't think the ending was a cop out. It is a story..and aren't stories supposed to have good endings, even if they aren't quite exactly like what would happen in real life? If they didn't get rescued, not much more could have happened anyways. They would've killed Ralph and lived under Jack's rule until they all died. That wouldn't have really been an adventure story for me. Overall, this wasn't one of my favorite books. I really enjoyed the ending actually, especially when all the boys started crying. It made us realize that after all, they are kids, but getting caught up in the book it seems like they are in a serious war. I think Lord of the Flies really reveals some truths about our society- that evil exists in ways we may not always expect.
Good points about the end of the book. Some have argued that Ralph should have been killed, leaving savage Jack as Golding's ultimate statement about "civilized" humanity.
I thought the ending was ironic and symbolic, not really a cop-out. The irony of the situation was that the Navy ship saw the smoke from the island from a fire that Jack, not Ralph, started, and now they're being rescued because of Jack's doing. It was logical that a ship could see the entire island burning. Symbolically I felt that as the island died, consumed by the fire, the Naval officer represented God taking them on to the next life. The way he condescends them and his image alone made me think that this was the missing God element in the book who judges them at the very end. So in that regard, I think his arrival is fitting. As for the book as a whole, I agree with the theme being realistic. People, even civilized people, are still animals with natural urges to behave aggressively and irrationally. Ignorance can overcome intelligence, and as evidence by the book can kill it. I think Golding knew that the evils of man will always surface up in any situation. I definitely enjoyed the book.
I do believe Goldings ending was a copout. He didn't really answer all of the unanswered questions. Like if Jack intentionally tried to burn the whole island down in hopes of killing Ralph, why wasn't there a final showdown, and what happened to Samneric? But maybe that's what Golding wanted? I thought the book was fabulous! His version of a crumbling society was very unique and stood out to me. It's clever to make the story about innocent little boys turning into savages when deserted on an island. Also I wished it ended differently, like Jack and Ralph having one final battle between each other.
ReplyDeleteMaybe that final battle will take place on the boat as they head for home, Danielle.
DeletePersonally, I thought the book had a really great ending. Some big-picture loose ends are tied up, but not necessarily small details. For example, the smoke that Ralph had been pushing for all along was what got them saved - but that wasn't the purpose the savages were using it for. Ralph finally lets out his emotions about the realizations he has made about life; he realizes the evil inside all humans. Ralph is recognized by the sailor as being the leader of the island as he should have been along, and Jack doesn't even challenge him. We know that the boys will get home safely.
ReplyDeleteIt was a fantastic book in my opinion. It was like some movies are - way better the second time around. I'm like you and wanted to read it as a pure adventure novel, but it's a lot deeper than that. It shows how acting civilized is essential to us humans, and if we revert to the ways of humans thousands of years ago (savagery that is), everything goes down the drain and nobody benefits. Although some parts of this book were really dark, I though it was a great story as a whole. I also loved visualizing the setting described by the narrator. All in all, a very interesting and gripping read.
I'm glad it resonated more with you the second time around, Estlin. Great literature does that.
DeleteThe ending was definitely a copout if you were reading the novel as pure adventure. I liked Ralph and was glad that he was saved, but in a way I wanted to see a big final showdown. Finishing with a fight would have made the ending more exciting and logical. The final pages just didn't quite do it for me. I would have liked to have known what happens with Samneric and what a final confrontation between Jack and Ralph would be like under adult supervision...If only Golding had written a few more pages about the interactions between them on the ship home.
ReplyDeleteI really enjoyed the book. Golding took a simple concept and made the meaning of it very complex. With everything in the stroy having symbolism, it kept you constantly thinking about what each aspect represents. For that reason, I never grew bored of the book. It was a good plot doubled with good meaning.
I'm glad you enjoyed it. As no part of the book takes place anywhere EXCEPT the island, having the last few pages take place elsewhere might feel awkward. Still, I know what you mean ...
DeleteI am stuck on a middle ground for what to call it. On one end, it was definitely a story book ending, a.k.a., cop-out. On the other end, what were the other options? Jack killing Ralph and continuing his violent game? The two of them talking it out and magically everything becomes fine? I think Golding's choice would have been the best ending. Compare it to civilization, it comes, it builds, then it gets destroyed. But no matter what, some society will always prevail and continue, even if that ending is a Deus Ex Machina among the probable answers.
ReplyDeleteAll in all with criticism aside, i enjoyed the book. I believe that although the cliche "stuck on an island" concept was used, Golding played it out in a unique way. The whole symbolism based on how civilization can fail in big ways was definitely earned bonus points. This is a worthwhile read I would recommend for others and may find myself coming back to in later years.
Yes, a bleak book would feel even worse if everybody died. That would be depressing. Glad you still enjoyed the book, Chris.
DeleteI don't think the ending was a cop out. It is a story..and aren't stories supposed to have good endings, even if they aren't quite exactly like what would happen in real life? If they didn't get rescued, not much more could have happened anyways. They would've killed Ralph and lived under Jack's rule until they all died. That wouldn't have really been an adventure story for me. Overall, this wasn't one of my favorite books. I really enjoyed the ending actually, especially when all the boys started crying. It made us realize that after all, they are kids, but getting caught up in the book it seems like they are in a serious war. I think Lord of the Flies really reveals some truths about our society- that evil exists in ways we may not always expect.
ReplyDeleteGood points about the end of the book. Some have argued that Ralph should have been killed, leaving savage Jack as Golding's ultimate statement about "civilized" humanity.
DeleteI thought the ending was ironic and symbolic, not really a cop-out. The irony of the situation was that the Navy ship saw the smoke from the island from a fire that Jack, not Ralph, started, and now they're being rescued because of Jack's doing. It was logical that a ship could see the entire island burning. Symbolically I felt that as the island died, consumed by the fire, the Naval officer represented God taking them on to the next life. The way he condescends them and his image alone made me think that this was the missing God element in the book who judges them at the very end. So in that regard, I think his arrival is fitting.
ReplyDeleteAs for the book as a whole, I agree with the theme being realistic. People, even civilized people, are still animals with natural urges to behave aggressively and irrationally. Ignorance can overcome intelligence, and as evidence by the book can kill it. I think Golding knew that the evils of man will always surface up in any situation. I definitely enjoyed the book.
Nice thought about the Naval officer and God/religion, Joey. I'm glad you enjoyed the novel.
Delete